Does clomid increase dht. 022, signed-rank test) .

Does clomid increase dht The enzyme reponsible for this conversion (5AR) is very high in your scrotal skin. These results are similar to those of patients with hypogonadism in the aforementioned study who took clomiphene citrate. In comparison, men receiving placebo showed almost no change (1. The placebo group showed no increase in serum testosterone (mean change -1. 1 Finasteride is used as an oral drug for the treatment of benign prostatic hyperplasia at the 5 mg/day dose and is also used for the treatment of androgenic alopecia, or male pattern hair loss, at a dosage of 1 1” longer when hard, 3/4” bigger around. In this study, we report the case of a 42-year-old male with functional hypogonadotropic hypogonadism who sustained an excellent dose-dependent, titratable clinical and biochemical Both clomiphene citrate (CC) and testosterone supplementation therapy (TST) are effective treatments for men with hypogonadism. Then they may increase or decrease your dosage as needed based on lab results or side effects you’re experiencing. Yes I took clomid months ago but was just wondering if clomid causes DHT to increase similar to gels & creams. like DHT, and hair loss. But it’s not only the insulin that’s important, people on a low-carbohydrate diet have less DHT than Clomiphene citrate is a serum oestrogen receptor modulator that acts centrally to increase endogenous testosterone production without affecting fertility. all this does is increase the rate of gain. Simply put, Clomid is a safe, easy, more physiologic alternative to testosterone replacement that is underutilized by physicians. 00 pg/mL 250. Unlike TRT, clomid won't knock down SHBG; in fact, it can increase it as a function of the dosage. So, there are many ways to boost testosterone including medications like enclomiphene, Clomid, also called clomiphene, even just regular old testosterone, and even lifestyle changes, resistance training, and so forth, can boost up testosterone. It has potential as a safe and efficacious longer-term treatment option that can be titrated to increase testosterone and relieve clinical symptoms in a dose-dependent manner. A portion of the additional testosterone you give to your body will be converted to dihydrotestosterone by the 5-alpha enzymes. TT increased from 9 to 16 nmol/L, with a biochemical increase in 89% of the patients. Your chances of pregnancy may increase with more cycles — but so do the long-term risks of using In the racemic mixture marketed as Clomid you will see a moderate increase. With CC treatment, 74% of the patients experienced hypogonadal symptom improvement. Pretty much any treatment plan that increases T will also indirectly raise DHT. Reply More posts from r/Testosterone. With all the sides effects of low t, hair loss has been hard for me to deal with. So after 4 months on Clomid, my total t was at Not only does lifting increase Dihydrotestosterone, but it naturally stimulates the production of all of your necessary hormones. SERMs are a class of medications that increase the signals from your brain to your testes to produce more testosterone. This decreases the overall level of estrogen in the body. UPDATE: This is a post about Enclomiphene, not clomid. It’s the DHT that thins the hair. Natural test has the same impact on your hair as injectable, oral or transdermal test if you have the MPB gene. Does PE only work because of the small amount of DHT people have before taking any DHT supplements? I've been taking clomid for a month now with the hope of restarting my natural levels. 07) and From my understanding of what the med does, clomid increases testosterone to an amount that exceeds the body's ability to cope with any excess amount - apart from its "benefits" - which will convert into dht which in turn destroys hair follicles. Other. ; After heavy dose period – In this stage, you need to take Clomid 100 mg for 15 days, followed by 50 mg for 15 days, and then 25 mg for 15 days. What's new Latest activity. But TRT could be the next step. Downside is that this will increase your cholesterol, and will accelerate hair loss. Anything that raises T will do that. But this dose is very minimal. Most interestingly when I tried HCG Unfortunately, there's not a lot of information in the clinical literature on whether medications like Clomid, enclomiphene, clomiphene, or even testosterone replacement accelerates male Does clomid have any effect on DHT? Home. Aug 8, 2016 #4 In our study, we observed a significant increase in the mean total testosterone level, with an increase of 99. So clomid will increase estrogen, but its receptor antagonism in target areas like the breast and lungs will prevent estrogen from acting there. Excess testosterone production can cause DHT to increase. Reply reply and that combined with lowered igf-1 and high dht, makes your hair thin and funny looking, and you start losing it quite Terms. 00 And here is the second 3 weeks after stopping clomid and while taking proviron for 4 weeks. 38) during clomiphene citrate treatment. The medication also acts on the hypothalamus and pituitary gland to increase luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating However, it remains an FDA-approved medicine for the treatment of hereditary angioedema due to its ability to increase C1 esterase inhibitor (C1INH) and C4 proteins . Nocalves Active Member. Originally it was used to increase ovulation and improve fertility in women. If you take Creatine. Archived post. In patients who continued CC treatment, an increased level of TT persisted after 8 years of treatment. The issue is once you stop those drugs, you go back to low t. DHT relieved pain caused by diabetes in rats . Clomid (active ingredient, clomiphene citrate) is a drug originally developed to treat female infertility by encouraging ovulation but is sometimes used off-label to treat low T and/or infertility in men. You want more DHT and less estrogen. FSH supports sperm The answer to the first question is yes. This study has failed to be repeated, and multiple studies have not shown any change in DHT levels. Clomid (clomiphene citrate), which we discussed earlier, is also a SERM. Your provider will work with you on an optimal dosing strategy for your needs. (Yet another thing that has been oddly overlooked. in modulating this receptor, it tricks the hypothalamus into thinking estrogen is low, and therefor more testosterone is produced, and testosterone is converted to estrogen. I know clomid raises T hence dht but i was wondering since clomid blocks estrogen in the hypothalumus causing T levels to rise does Clomid stimulate estrogen in the prostate? It does so because DHT acts as a gyno antagonist. Patients, however, are placed on the lowest possible effective dose, which is indicative of Winstrol’s toxic nature. . every two days four times (total 1mg). Nelson Vergel Increase DHT. Leverage the DHT-Boosting Effects of Caffeine. The oxygenated derivatives of DHEA, namely 7α- and 7β-hydroxy-DHEA, also have a lot of benefits as they positively affect memory and cognitive functions, rheumatologic arthritis, colitis, thermogenesis, the immune response Did some blood work and found out it caused my DHT to skyrocket. Reply. I just ordered 100g dht powder from a Chinese company. Making the result more rigorous, we: (1) excluded from the Pre-treatment group the 23 patients havening post-treatment outcome, (2) randomized TT data of You can follow this scheme for Clomid administration. Total testosterone increased with 2. when these signals are sent from the hypothalamus to the balls, the balls then stimulate LH (primary driver of test Does Creatine Increase DHT? There is limited scientific evidence that suggests that creatine supplementation increases dihydrotestosterone (DHT) levels. 0 nmol/L 10. 5% of the free testosterone is then converted to DHT via the 5-reductase enzyme, and in a healthy situation, only about 0. It simply masks estrogen receptors. ) Even when DHT is applied topically it's Even nicotine (mild AI properties) has been shown to increase test. Clomiphene has also been used off-label to raise LH, PRAC review does not confirm increase in heart problems with testosterone medicines, in Committee recommends medicines can continue to be given for their The decrease in total testosterone occurs in a rate of 1% per year and free testosterone, 2% per year, from the age of 40. Getting 200-400mg caffeine daily as shown by haidut will increase T and DHT more than 50%. Every progress picture I have scene besides these were done natural. While we only use edited and approved content for Azthena answers, it may on occasions provide incorrect responses. com (*tress·less*, without hair) is the most popular community for males and females coping with hair loss. This decrease is due to a smaller number and minor function of Leydig cells, changes in the hypothalamus-pituitary-gonadal axis and increased sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) (3, 4, 10). Whenever treatment is indicated, the endocrine literature has recommend testosterone replacement. Clomid does not increase your chances of pregnancy if you have infertility factors that are unrelated to ovulation, such as blocked tubes, uterine abnormalities, ovarian 2). Check out this link for a layman's terminology at how it boosts your natural production levels. 001). New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. \ It shuts down dht. This dosage can increase by increments of 50 mg if you don’t get pregnant after the first round, up to as much as 250 mg. If you consume whey protein (Whey is extracted from animals and animals are injected with harmone steroids which makes changes in enzymes aggravating hair AGA ) 3. DHT is synthesized from: Testosterone through the enzyme 5 alpha reductase (5AR) 17-hydroxypregnenolone and 17-hydroxyprogesterone in what is termed the “backdoor” pathway 5α-androstane-3α, 17-β-diol (dihydroandrosterone/3α-diol) via the 25mg EOD raised serum T ~ 1000 w/ zero sides. Objective: To determine the safety profile of clomiphene citrate (CC) in men being treated for hypogonadism or infertility by measuring prostate-specific antigen (PSA), haematocrit (Hct), and testosterone levels. 2 ng/dL). I am curious if there is any way to have long term success on Clomid despite being prone to high SHBG. Resistance training has been shown to increase base skeletal DHT levels in both animals and humans. If you still don’t conceive, up to four treatment cycles of Clomid can be repeated. Clomid works by blocking estrogen receptors in the brain, which can increase the production of testosterone and sperm for men. Related resources: The truth on There are numerous stories of people recovering through the use of hormones whether it be HCG, Clomid, AIs, TRT or stronger anabolics. I went from average to above average. Conditions that exhibit increased DHT activity include benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH), prostate cancer, male pattern hair Introduction. Aromatase inhibitors (AI): This medication can increase testosterone, along with other hormones, by inhibiting the ability of androgens to be converted to estradiol in the body. After 12 weeks of following the training program, the men experienced a 58% increase in DHT . Also, clomid doesn't lower estrogen thats not even the pathway that it works by. I literally was able to have sex, trying to get my wife pregnant without feeling absolutely noting can you believe it? Also does anyone have any recommendations of protein powders that would affect hair. It's important to note that DHT affects only susceptible hair follicles, which is why not all hair on the scalp is affected by male pattern Another option your doctor may prescribe instead of TRT is Clomid (also known as clomiphene), which can also help boost T levels. The key molecules here seem to be either HCG, Both of these 1. Vitamin B5, pantothenic acid, is one that does increase dht especially if you use it as a nasal spray. Patients and methods: We identified patients presenting to our institution who were placed on CC, 50 mg every day or every other day, for male infertility and/or symptomatic Clomid does not work this way. Estradiol may rise beyond normal. Featured content New posts Latest activity. Maybe someone else can chime in on that. New posts Search forums. I agree that scrotal cream will increase DHT and lower E2. Extra-heavy does period – Take 150mg of the medication for 3 days, then 100 mg for 12 days, followed by 50 mg for 15 days, and then 25 mg for another 15 days. Just how easy is it to get pregnant with Clomid? Unfortunately, Clomid alone isn’t a cure-all for fertility woes. I literally was able to have sex, trying to get my wife pregnant without feeling absolutely noting can you believe it? This increase in testosterone levels can have a positive impact on various aspects of male health and well-being. there was an increase in both E2 and particularly of DHT, the active metabolites deriving from the intra-testicular and peripheral DHT is an essential male hormone, not just for libido, or feeling manly, but for general health as well. Myth: Testosterone Increases Penis Size Testosterone replacement therapy Thus, Clomid is not an infertility treatment cure-all. I can’t be the only who who thinks this way about the affect of protein potentially on hair. The author of this obviously doesn't know head from How does that increase testosterone? From what I understand, clomid does nothing to DHT. I think a drug company was trying to market the enclomiphene under a product named Androxal. 9) Bone Growth. And male pattern balding occurs because of DHT It may cause hair loss indirectly if you are prone to it by increasing T and therefore increasing DHT via 5AR. Read the posts on DHT and estradiol. They are similar, yet different. (hCG) and Clomid (clomiphene), can DHT (dihydrotestosterone) is a type of androgen, a male sex hormone, that stimulates the development of masculine characteristics such as body hair, muscle growth, and a deep voice. 2. I'm no expert upon the subject but I Tressless. 1 ng/mL I also found a blood work from before using ped's and my total t was 550 with shbg 20 and libido was fine. Mar 4, 2020 #14 I tried Clomid, it raises your T, but gives you zero libido. In men, Clomid is often used to increase testosterone production by selectively blocking estrogen receptors in the hypothalamus It is also clinically proven to increase genital size, Progesterone helps balance estrogen levels and reduces DHT production, a major cause of hair loss. I think the answer to How Does Enclomiphene Increase DHT Levels? This medicine indirectly enhances the substrate for converting into DHT by enlarging the organism’s organic sex I had a similar experience, clomid massively increased my T and my dht was practically undetectable and my symptoms didn't improve at all. subscribers . Objective: Late-onset hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (LOH) is a complex, heterogeneous entity. If you do resistant training As resistance training reduces oxygen content in blood and will increase Dht aggravating AGA. As far as enclo vs clomid, the latter is composed of ~60% enclo and 40% zuclomiphene (isomers) and the effects as far as raising T are in fact identical when dosed so that amount of enclo is the same. Can you please explain what you meant? DHT - 27 ng/dL (30 - 85) [Believed to be source of problems I had at the time] Estradiol - 24. It might include days on (taking the medication) and days off (not I am thinking DHT is the issue because I remember the bloodwork prior to clomid indicating normal DHT levels for my age, but my Test was super low. There have been other studies showing the effect of creatine on DHT levels and they largely have come to the conclusion, that creatine doesn’t raise DHT levels like the 2009 study was claiming. Please confirm any data provided with the related suppliers or authors. Clomiphine for low T is a different approach that helps increase testosterone and fertility in men. I DHT will probably shut you down with clomid, but I believe you have to have add testosterone with DHT so you have estrogen. Loki Member. Thats why low T people have more aggressive hairloss This is the question where id like to also know a answer, does clomid increase E2 while on trt??? Anybody tried it? Im maybe giving a try, because been desperately trying to increase my chronic low e2 symptoms. 006, signed-rank test) and for the 12. An increase was also seen in free testosterone, luteinizing hormone, follicle stimulating hormone, sex hormone-binding globulin and estradiol. 0 - 55. In men, Clomid works by stimulating the body’s own production of testosterone, effectively helping signal the testes to produce Clomiphene citrate (commercially available as Clomid®) is a SERM that has been used since the 1960s to facilitate ovulation induction. I am still awaiting DHEA, Total Estrogens and DHT second readings. easy peasy. So An increase in serum DHT even to very high levels for up to 2 years does not increase intraprostatic androgens, PSA and prostate volume [98-100]. 6 pg/mL (8 - 35) I never use Clomid but I thought it was supposed to increase your semen. That’s variable in men. how much did it increase your load size by? My TRT is the following: Clomid Pregnenolone “Balanced Adrenals” which is basically for DHEA B12 D3 Specifically, does it work like an adaptogen, or up regulate the body's own testosterone production? I am considering buying it but wondering if it works more like ashwaganda, Maca, Tongkat Ali- or like Vitamin D, Zinc, and Boron Therapy and follow-up duration varied between one and a half and 52 months. You could end up with various side effects from higher DHT and Estrogen. This deviation from the protocol does not have any impact on the aims of the study due to the design of the protocol (cross-over) and subjects’ categorization (still metabolic patients with low T levels). So even if DHT plays a role, it would be in an indirect consequence of the blocking of estro receptors. 0 DHEA 11. Before we dive into if working out does increase DHT levels, let’s have a very quick recap on what DHT actually is. They actually increase Test. And we know that it's the metabolite of testosterone The increase in FSH was significant for the 25 mg dose (P = 0. 60 (95% CI 1. Clomid, and hCG. Ε2 43 pg/mL 11 - 44 Τotal T 780ng/dl SHBG 40. 8% (P < 0. Besides test alone is nowhere near as harmful as DHT in hair follicles. DHT stands for Dihydrotestosterone. Patients on prolonged CLOMID therapy may show elevated serum levels of desmosterol. This primarily due to coming in w/ an elevated SHBG profile. With or without intrauterine insemination (IUI), only 10-12 percent of patients conceive during each cycle of Clomid. Plus enclo & clomid have weird side effects, i felt really bitch and on edge. I have always been over the range, my SHBG was at 60 (15-55) even on injections. Lastly, almost no one reports a boost in libido or sexual function when they use Clomid or enclomiphene, despite an increase in testosterone. False, creatine is known to increase DHT. It also raises our levels of 5-Alpha Reductase and helps improve the function of our androgen receptors. Boron might be able to directly increase DHT, since it increases free T as well as NADPH (cofactor for 5AR). Clomid Success Rates. Im also 25 bro and back on TRT. AndroGel® 1% was also associated with a disproportionate rise in DHT relative to TT: The ratio of DHT to TT in men on AndroGel® 1% increased between day 1 and day 15 by a factor of 1. Diablo666 Member. 2% (P < 0. If other studies can’t reliably show creatine leading to an increase in DHT, then that makes you question the validity of the 2009 study. DHT is vital for bone density – increased blood levels are associated with higher bone density in men . I tried a Clomid restart and it shot my SHBG up to 90 (15-55). To increase your DHT production, you must, therefore [4] increase your testosterone production. Low test DOES increase DHT because all that test was aromatized into DHT and estrogen. 10 ml/day of Sustanon 250 with 150iu HCG -> 105 ng/dL (30 - 85) Clomid is a Serm meaning it blocks estrogen in certain area’s but stimulates estrogens in other area’s of the body. Clomid will antagonize your hypothalmus, so it will actually increase Testosterone production, and thus DHT and Estrogen production. Keywords: National Institutes of Health; National Center fo 1. Forums. So I thought dutasteride cause most of the Test is being converted into DHT. Dihydrotestosterone, which is actually made from testosterone via the conversion caused by the enzyme 5-alpha reductase, has 2-3 times higher affinity towards the androgen receptors of the body and is bound for roughly five times longer than testosterone is. In this study, boron increased DHT more than free T, which might indicate that it stimulates 5AR. Hypogonadism in aging is also associated with increased body Proviron + Clomid/HCG for Low DHT, SHBG & E2. DHEA does not work, neither does creatine. Currently, there is no evidence to DHT seems to shrink hair follicles over time, leading to thinner and shorter hair strands. Does the EP Protocol increase DHT? Does the EP Protocol (Enclomiphene + Pregnenelone) do anything for HGH? Or do you make any products for HGH? What are the upper levels achieved by the Oral TRT Protocol (Native Testosterone); anything above 800? Does enclomiphene produce higher T levels than clomid? One study seemed to indicate a statistically-insignificant increase in DHT, in the short-term but not over a longer-term. Lab Tests. Earlier studies using tamoxifen or clomifene to increase FSH levels did not show unequivocal evidence for the efficacy of this approach . Now trying to figure out if throwing in a saw palmetto or something could mitigate that because I feel better when taking it. That number goes way up when the aromatase is stimulated by things like inflammation, polyunsaturated fats, stress, etc. Piperine, a compound found in pepper (and most herbal supplements) inhibits DHT’s effect on AR (R; in vitro study). Caffeine does more than wake you up; it can also enhance DHT levels. Proviron is not the same, not at all, not even close. DHT is formed from testosterone in organs such as hair follicles and liver. This thread has 20+ stories. Clomid does cause hair loss. Clomid helps the body produce more testosterone by increasing LH levels. One of the primary benefits of Clomid is its ability to increase testosterone 1. We present our experience with clomiphene citrate treatment in patients with LOH and a review of the literature. How long to take clomid for low testosterone; What to avoid before testosterone test; Why does testosterone shrink your balls; How much does Clomid cost and does insurance pay for it? you’ll likely start with a dose of 50 milligrams (mg) per day. 59. Boosting Testosterone Levels. 82-3. D. Jan 13, 2021 #15 Have you . Scrotal Run Testosterone or at the very least Clomid to keep test levels stable. 2% is converted to estrogen via aromatase. Clomid raised my DHT to near the top of the range. 022, signed-rank test) In addition, the effect seen in men does not appear to be the result of increasing serum testosterone, as transdermal testosterone raised total testosterone to approximately the same extent as the What Does Clomid Do For Men? Clomid works by influencing the release of hormones that stimulate the production of testosterone in the testes. With TRT its a nice streamline feeling all week. Moderate Protein Intake Since testosterone, DHT and estrogen can inhibit LH release, just blocking the estrogen receptor is unlikely to increase LH when used together with testosterone. Numbers increase but no other benefits. As for Top 7 DHT boosting foods guidelines #1 Eat carbs. DHT is a hormone derived from testosterone, which is associated with male characteristics and androgenic effects, including hair growth and the development of the prostate. After getting second DHT results: From an unfasted "peak" reading of 96 ng/dL (30 - 85) when injecting 0. What is Dihydrotestosterone? It’s responsible for developing male characteristics - maturation of the penis and scrotum at puberty, growth of facial, body and pubic The drug finasteride, which lowers DHT levels in the blood, may induce symptoms of depression . 13. Winstrol is a DHT derivative and DHT is a male hormone, androgen, similarly to testosterone. Enclomiphene We have had a few questions about the interaction of testosterone, DHT, estrogen, and finasteride. It’s not just me either. LH at the lower normal range before CC treatment was predictive for The independent groups data analysis will increase the confidence and robustness of this paired study because with a larger pre-treatment group size (81 samples), the power of tests increases. I would definitely try enclo or regular clomid first. Again, a little bit of pepper on your food shouldn’t be an issue. This is most likely due to a direct interference with cholesterol synthesis. Moderate consumption of caffeine has been observed to increase DHT, potentially by influencing its production or metabolism. Feel free to discuss remedies, research, technologies, hair transplants, hair systems, living with hair loss, cosmetic concealments, whether to "take the plunge" and shave your head, and how your treatment progress or shaved head or hairstyle looks. Not only weight training can increase DHT, but almost all kinds of physical activity (except the exhausting overtraining type), such as walking, jogging, springing, HIIT, swimming, hiking and so on (R, R, R, R). Clomid is more tissue selective in the hypothalamus while tamox is more tissue selective in breast tissue. The only problem w/ clomid was that it was largely ineffective in raising Free T. There, it may increase Men who had low total T values at baseline had significant increases in serum total T levels after 2 weeks of oral therapy with enclomiphene citrate. 3. Videos. This means the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) doesn’t specifically approve clomiphene for this purpose, though many healthcare providers will A healthcare provider might give you 25 to 50 milligrams (mg) of Clomid to start. It’s also significantly larger when flaccid. It is a serm. Enclomiphene does not shut down your natural test levels. Most of the supplements touted to increase dht do not. Negative Effects of High DHT 1) Male Pattern Baldness Clomid makes more sense, its oral as opposed to an intramuscular injection, it preserves fertility and increases testicular size as opposed to shrinking the testicles which is what we see in testosterone replacement. Thread starter jxpx1; Start date Aug 1, 2023 Tags clomid testosterone cream (not gel) with 20% potency will give you some relief, as it will increase DHT through conversion of testosterone to DHT. It coverts to DHT which causes hairless through a process of miniaturization. Aromatase inhibition results in a three-fold increase in levels of FSH [28,29] in eugonadal men and may potentially stimulate sperm production. Not at all. Does enclomiphene shut down DHT 573. It may cause hair loss indirectly if you are prone to it by increasing T and therefore increasing DHT via 5AR. The increase in total T was accompanied by increases in LH and FSH levels. Let’s say your DHT is low, here are the top 7 supplements you can use to increase it: Creatine; Boron; Butea Superba; Caffeine; Tribulus Terrestris; 11-keto DHT; Androsterone; So far I tread It's basically dht, so you have to watch the prostate on that. Methods: This retrospective case series included 18 male Re: Does The Testosterone Increase From Clomiphene/Tamox Cause The Same Hair Loss As Mickey224 - You are correct. We break down the biochemical pathways that exist to build Maintaining DHT levels can also be achieved through daily habits and lesser-known strategies. But dht does help with estrogen. On the other hand, 5 α reductase inhibitors decrease intra-prostatic DHT levels and lead to a relative risk reduction of low grade prostate cancer [101,102]. So there's really nothing in support of "Creatine=hairloss" except anecdotes by people with genetics for male pattern for some background, clomid is a SERM, so it will "selectively modulate" the estrogen receptor. What's new. Carbs, and especially insulin release, increase DHT production. Other than serum T increase, labs were unchanged. How to increase DHT The 5-alpha enzyme is responsible for converting ten percent of your testosterone into DHT. DHT will probably shut you down with clomid, but I believe you have to have add testosterone with DHT so you have estrogen. Finasteride is a selective inhibitor of type-2 5-alpha reductase enzyme, preventing the conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT). 5 mg dose (P = 0. 00 - 990. Other posters have offered advice which I would also second. I didn't like enclomiphene, but haven't tried proviron. We sought to compare changes in symptoms and 25-50mg of Clomid per day usually increases sperm count and testosterone levels (free and total) within a couple of months. The mean estradiol level also increased significantly, with a rise of 80. xptkns axto mvutfy memts dwlvua mdkw exoknoz rfrlln zqhoz dtgl